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The more I think about justice on a societal level, the more I’m convinced that we need something…
Дата публикации: 08-10-2026 15:56:43

wetwareproblem:The more I think about justice on a societal level, the more I’m convinced that we need something that looks less like police and more like the NTSB.A key concept in air safety is the “Swiss cheese model.” Basically, it says that for any given incident, there were multiple stages at which it could have been prevented. The only way the incident happened is if holes in our safety nets at each of these steps all lined up. Even if there is a single person whose actions caused that incident, the industry as a whole has failed by putting them in a position to do it.The NTSB not concerned with finding the person to blame or punishing them; its primary role is to go “How did we, collectively, allow it to get to this point, and what can we do to prevent the next one?”I think this applies on a societal level as well. For most crimes that actually cause harm to someone… there are circumstances that lead up to it. Even when someone is Just Plain nasty and determined to do wrong, they generally give warning signs before actually escalating to real harm. Those are the points in the Swiss cheese model where intervention could prevent the actual incident.And, of course, far far more often, these incidents are born of desperation or inability to cope or a sheer lack of the proper emotional health and skills to manage in this bitch of a world. If the suspect had had proper support structures anywhere along the way, it never would have gotten to this.Cops are there to find someone to blame and punish - and this is not just useless but counterproductive. Aversive punishment plain doesn’t work, and we’ve known this for ages. It’s settled science - hell, we recognize that it’s cruelty and abuse to do it to dogs! Why are we still trying it on human beings? All it does is make their circumstances even more dire, their responses even more maladaptive.Instead, we should look at these incidents and say “Where could we, as a society, intervene to prevent things like this from happening? What circumstances do we need to change to prevent the next one?(A huge shout out to @thelawfulchaotic for making me think about this seriously and consider different models.)

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  • wetwareproblem:

    The more I think about justice on a societal level, the more I’m convinced that we need something that looks less like police and more like the NTSB.

    A key concept in air safety is the “Swiss cheese model.” Basically, it says that for any given incident, there were multiple stages at which it could have been prevented. The only way the incident happened is if holes in our safety nets at each of these steps all lined up. Even if there is a single person whose actions caused that incident, the industry as a whole has failed by putting them in a position to do it.

    The NTSB not concerned with finding the person to blame or punishing them; its primary role is to go “How did we, collectively, allow it to get to this point, and what can we do to prevent the next one?”

    I think this applies on a societal level as well. For most crimes that actually cause harm to someone… there are circumstances that lead up to it. Even when someone is Just Plain nasty and determined to do wrong, they generally give warning signs before actually escalating to real harm. Those are the points in the Swiss cheese model where intervention could prevent the actual incident.

    And, of course, far far more often, these incidents are born of desperation or inability to cope or a sheer lack of the proper emotional health and skills to manage in this bitch of a world. If the suspect had had proper support structures anywhere along the way, it never would have gotten to this.

    Cops are there to find someone to blame and punish - and this is not just useless but counterproductive. Aversive punishment plain doesn’t work, and we’ve known this for ages. It’s settled science - hell, we recognize that it’s cruelty and abuse to do it to dogs! Why are we still trying it on human beings? All it does is make their circumstances even more dire, their responses even more maladaptive.

    Instead, we should look at these incidents and say “Where could we, as a society, intervene to prevent things like this from happening? What circumstances do we need to change to prevent the next one?

    (A huge shout out to @thelawfulchaotic for making me think about this seriously and consider different models.)

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